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Saturday, December 30, 2017

Redefining normal

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70 Comments:

Anonymous Looking Glass December 30, 2017 12:54 PM  

That was brutal.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 30, 2017 12:54 PM  

It just doesn't go with the decor, does it?

Anonymous Aeoli Pera December 30, 2017 12:58 PM  

It just doesn't go with the decor, does it?

Blogger Miguel December 30, 2017 1:00 PM  

Its actually quite sad.

Anonymous Blume December 30, 2017 1:05 PM  

I feel like they think this is some biting pro multicultural piece but its really alt right. Britain's culture and history ate disappearing before their eyes.

Blogger Robert Browning December 30, 2017 1:08 PM  

(((They))) hate him. Every last one of (((them))).

Anonymous VFMUltra December 30, 2017 1:10 PM  

They should have shot another scene where a hijabed muslim woman comes in next and they don't even bother to look at her application, ignore her explosive vest, AK-47, the bloody knife in her hand, and hire her on the spot.

Anonymous Tsalal December 30, 2017 1:11 PM  

It's meant to be a satire apparently.

Anonymous qualitycontrol December 30, 2017 1:12 PM  

I told a atheist/agnostic couple that I'll pray for them and their baby. They looked at me like I was a freak.

Blogger Purge187 December 30, 2017 1:19 PM  

An Oregon bakery has been ordered to pay 135K in "damages" for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a pair of dykes. I guess this means I can make a quick penny by suing a halal deli owner for not making me a BLT, right?

Right?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 30, 2017 1:20 PM  

You could ask your liberal "friends" how they go about discriminating against Christians, white male ones specifically.

Blogger Matt December 30, 2017 1:28 PM  

You wont find a halal deli owner unwilling to cook bacon. They just wont eat it.

Anonymous Jpop December 30, 2017 1:31 PM  

OT- France sets up tax dept to investigate Jews

http://m.jpost.com/israel-news/france-sets-up-tax-dept-to-investigate-jews-521379

Blogger tublecane December 30, 2017 1:32 PM  

On the flip side, my sister works for a company that's unofficially Christian. I mean, not like it's on a mission or anything, it just is full of Christian employees and likes to do business a certain way. You should hear her talk about the very idea of broaching the subject of Christianity in a job interview. I'm not even talking about asking interviewees what denomination they are, or whether they're believers. I mean simply bringing the topic up.

She believes it would be illegal. Which may well be true; I wouldn't know. But more than that, like it would be some soft form of evil "discrimination," and an invasion of privacy.

Job interviews aren't exactly the public square, but I find this all to be madness. Someone has convinced people that belief is like homosexuality in the old days. Like a secret you have to keep way down deep, lest anyone discover you.

Blogger DJ | AMDG December 30, 2017 1:34 PM  

I’ve always thought Tracy Ullman was funny. And I rarely find women entertainers funny. She knows the truth, like other intelligent entertainers such as Russell Brand or Penn Gillette. But also like them she seems unwilling to embrace it.

Anonymous Patron December 30, 2017 1:47 PM  

Pretty accurate sadly. Christians in the UK are a group you're able to mock, discriminate against etc with impunity, and have been able to for decades.

Blogger Rashadjin December 30, 2017 1:53 PM  

I'm use to Christians being the target of bigots like this. What makes me cringe is the so-called Christian arbitrarily forgiving them and withdrawing her application so as to relieve any burden of shame or guilt or legal messiness on the part of the bigots. That's telling them it's okay to be bigoted against Christians, which is what Hollywood learned when they only had to weather a nice, peaceful protest when they screened The Last Temptation of Christ by Scorsese. The massive size of the protest didn't matter because it was toothless. We've seen where that ended up going...

This isn't about normalization or a critique of self-righteous bigots and sheeple; it's reinforcement. Of Churchianity's cowardice and harmlessness masquerading as moral superiority. This is the exact thing that Dr. Jordan Peterson is fighting against so well. And it's this thing that's even more insidious than the long done expulsion of Christians from polite and normal society.

Once upon a time, Israelites saw blasphemy in men forgiving sin, but Churchianity has basically codified men forgiving sin into its morality. They absolve others from having to answer to any higher authority, whether that be God or the state. It really isn't a stretch to call the modern doctrine of forgiveness blasphemy.

@7 Purge187

Regrettably, no. The black robes have arbitrarily redefined sexual orientation (sexuality) to be the same as biological sex and thus a protected class in regards to discrimination. The closest you can get is to go to every baker and ask them to bake a cake that's offensively hetero and sue all the ones that don't comply, using the LGBT activists as precedent. You could try that with an offensively pro-Christian message on a cake (like Deus Vult, bonus points if the baker is Islamic), but you'd mostly just confirm that the idea of religion as a protected class doesn't mean what it says it means in the American legal context by confirming that you can offend Christians by denying their requests on religious or other, even more arbitrary grounds.

Your food preferences don't count in the slightest. Unless you're Muslim. You get an apology if you're Jewish.

Blogger CM December 30, 2017 2:05 PM  

--Once upon a time, Israelites saw blasphemy in men forgiving sin, but Churchianity has basically codified men forgiving sin into its morality. They absolve others from having to answer to any higher authority, whether that be God or the state. It really isn't a stretch to call the modern doctrine of forgiveness blasphemy.--

Hmmmmm... that is very interesting. I would enjoy seeing this expanded. I forgave someone who did not repent in so far as I let it go. We are not friends, though. I don't trust her as long as she does not recognize what she did was wrong.

Was that forgiveness? Or something else?

Anonymous Just another commenter December 30, 2017 2:07 PM  

@11 - I think the logic is that you cannot legally ask about things that you are not allowed to legally discriminate on. A public school cannot ask your faith, an explicitly Christian school can. The interviewee can bring up anything they want in the "anything else?" part of the interview.

Blogger tublecane December 30, 2017 2:10 PM  

@14-I think you give SCOTUS too much intellectual credit--as stupid as it is--when you say they redefined "orientation" to be biological sex. Which may actually be in the decision, I don't know. But does anyone actually believe they went through that thought process to reach their decision? "Sexual orientation is like biological sex, biological sex is protected against 'discrimination,' therefore sexual orientation must be protected!" No.

It was more like "Homos are a protected class now. Now shut up and deal with it."

Blogger tublecane December 30, 2017 2:14 PM  

@16-Which effectively means religion is banned from discussion during interviews at least. How long before we're not allowed to talk about it at all at work?

Eventually, we'll be organic robots who are only allowed to discuss what delightful products we plan to consume next, and how wonderful Our Leader looks today on the telescreen.

They slowly chip away at what it means to be human.

Blogger pyrrhus December 30, 2017 2:29 PM  

Eventually, we'll be organic robots who are only allowed to discuss what delightful products we plan to consume next, and how wonderful Our Leader looks today on the telescreen.

Luckily, this mess will collapse before that happens...After the collapse, official State religions will be the norm again.

Anonymous Ain December 30, 2017 2:33 PM  

"Was that forgiveness? Or something else?"

I watched an old Derek Prince video last night. He likened forgiveness to tearing up an IOU you have from somebody so that God will tear up the IOU He has from you. It's similar to Jesus's parable about the debtor and the prison.

I've been giving it a lot of thought lately, spurred from reading "The Last Closet" and the events that happened therein. There does seem to be two types of forgiveness, both related but different. The first, the one people tend to associate with, is to no longer feel anger and resentment towards somebody. The second, which seems more conducive to Jesus's parable, is the cancellation of a debt.

Blogger Rashadjin December 30, 2017 2:36 PM  

@15

I go back to the Israelites because the concept of forgiveness and sin has become incredibly muddy in more recent times (you can thank Catholics for a large chunk of that slippery slope). The simplest clarity I can offer is that the process of repentance, reconciliation and forgiveness between two people in a friendship or similar doesn't absolve people from having to answer to a higher authority.

However you worked the interpersonal side of that process between you and your friend, a Christian, if your friend is a Christian, should also have an awareness that they've sinned against God by wronging you as well. Your forgiveness isn't the same as God's forgiveness. Your forgiveness doesn't fix the breach between them and God.

The clip shown in the OP is an entirely different context though. That's an employer and business, answerable to the state for legal misdeeds. If a Christian wants to be treated with all the respect due according to law, they must demand it with the force of law where they've been so grievously and obviously slighted.

Also, grace has been made a cheap rag to cover hedonism, weakness and cowardice.

@17

Sure, I'm giving that SCOTUS decision too much credit. But in real terms, "Homos(sexual orientation [sexuality]) are a protected class now" was slid under by the long association of homosexuality with a person's genetics thus allowing the conflation of sexual orientation (sexuality) with biological sex. That the association of homo and genes boils down to genetics probably determining some of a person's flexibility in regards to their sexuality (so the idea that a person is born gay is a lie) is neither here nor there.

And the idea that a person's orientation is genetic by birth was specifically slipped in for legal purposes. This is one of the end goals based on the hard redefinition of orientation (sexuality) to be an aspect of a person's biological sex. SCOTUS may not be that smart, but the people who started the process years ago were, and so SCOTUS just has to run the script handed to them.

The other end goal, as some LGBT activists have stated, is to legally destroy the concept of religion as a protected class. They've always known they needed to defeat religious legal protections to get what they wanted, and they're well on their way with that goal too.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( the Original Militant Apathist ) December 30, 2017 2:38 PM  

Ullman was married to the same man for 30 years ( he died of cancer ) and was raised Catholic.

so it's funny reading the comment thread to the video and seeing all the autists claiming that this is a skit making fun of discrimination against Christians.

Blogger Ransom Smith December 30, 2017 2:42 PM  

(((They))) hate him. Every last one of (((them)))
Isn't that a scene in the original Airplane ?
Where the Comanchero type walk right through security and then the same security officer rough up an old woman.

Blogger Jon D. December 30, 2017 2:52 PM  

Far too accurate.

Blogger Pioneer Spirit December 30, 2017 2:57 PM  

There was a 70's sketch on SNL featuring Dan Akroyd and company.

Anonymous Simon in London December 30, 2017 3:00 PM  

>>>(((They))) hate him. Every last one of (((them)))<<<

I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them.

Blogger KBuff December 30, 2017 3:12 PM  

Happy Birthday to Tracey! It appears Infogalactic has her correct age, unlike Wikipedia.

Blogger Robert Browning December 30, 2017 3:41 PM  

Simon in London wrote:>>>(((They))) hate him. Every last one of (((them)))<<<

I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them.




How do you know she wasn't rubbing it in our faces there Simon?? You want to be the first one?? you want to be the first Jew in history to apologize for the cold blooded murder of an innocent man, for the cold blooded murder of Gods only son?? Step up, show us your humanity.

Blogger Cecil Henry December 30, 2017 3:44 PM  

@5:

I don't think it satire. Its smug vindictiveness and Schadenfreude against Christianity and traditional Britain.

Given the vindictive nature of the BBC, and corporate British MSM, as exemplified with this years Christmas advertising, it is no coincidence.

It makes me think of this:


This is Why We Have Anti-Semitism

https://www.counter-currents.com/2017/12/this-is-why-we-have-anti-semitism/

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 30, 2017 3:55 PM  

tublecane wrote:Which effectively means religion is banned from discussion during interviews at least. How long before we're not allowed to talk about it at all at work?
I don't know where you work, but in my part of the world we already are. I was chastised a few years ago for taking Holy Week off. Literally no-one in the management group knew what it was. They knew about Diwali and Ramadan, but not Holy Week.

Blogger Cecil Henry December 30, 2017 4:00 PM  


Diversity™ is our Misery: British version

Yes its this bad, and WORSE:


https://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/parts-of-britain-now-no-go-zones-for-whites-and-women/


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRRD0kFX4A012zz.jpg


It's time to let diversity™ be somebody else's strength.

Blogger HalibetLector December 30, 2017 4:02 PM  

Simon in London wrote:>>>(((They))) hate him. Every last one of (((them)))<<<

I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them.


I thought she was defending Christians in that sketch as well. It wasn't very funny and the 'as a Christian' is pretty tone deaf, similar to 'fellow white people'. It's a little patronizing, which pisses me off.

Anonymous eddie December 30, 2017 4:04 PM  

"I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them."

Yes, this obviously the case.



Anonymous Laz December 30, 2017 4:08 PM  

"And the idea that a person's orientation is genetic by birth was specifically slipped in for legal purposes."

We all have the capacity to sin from the moment of conception, so yes, it's genetic... to all humans.

Anonymous Stickwick December 30, 2017 4:49 PM  

As a Christian who was in academia for many years, this was my experience in some institutions and groups.

It's rare that anything is said outright -- no one wants to get slapped with a lawsuit -- but as soon as people find out you're Christian, there are subtle cues that you're now regarded as some kind of weirdo or intellectual defective.

Never mind that Christians established the university system, the new normal doesn't recognize that. Everywhere you look, the past is being burned down like the Jedi tree.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 30, 2017 4:57 PM  

For whom is "big business" with its "big HR depts" to comply with "big government" working?

Seriously. Who benefits? That number is shrinking rapidly. Parasites outnumber hosts, and due to Democrats and democracy the P/H ratio is rising rapidly.

A tipping point approaches.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 30, 2017 5:04 PM  

In today's world I could easily interpret the skit as substituting Christian for Muslim as a way to strike at those who prudently grasp the real, statistically significant risk of hiring people whose religion was founded by a warrior rather than one founded by a peaceful preacher.

There is no such thing as secular in a place predominantly occupied by Muslims. The personal is the political IS THE RELIGIOUS.

Blogger LP9 December 30, 2017 5:07 PM  

Nice to hear Tracy, she was loved in the 80's she used to have her show before the rancid Simpsonz show.

Anonymous Uguu December 30, 2017 6:11 PM  

Perhaps a way of restoring the old normal:

VD, I have a philisophical idea for you.

It comes from a guy named Johanan Raatz, who advocates philisophical idealism. This is his introspective argument (simplified):

1. The mind exists.
2. Mental qualia is not reducible to matter.
3. Dualism is icoherent b/c of the interaction problem.
Therefore, all is mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l1lQMCOguw

So in a sense the world is information processed through a conscious observer, and God is the mind which contains all information. Mathematics is God's body. In addition to solving the problem of consciousness, it also makes materialist atheism understandable: if our basis for understanding is the physical world, then what does not exist in the physical, such as non-material entities such as God, does not exist as well.

If this argument is as solid as I think it is, I believe we have another to restore Christianity back to its former glory, and burn the Gods of Holocaustianity, Churchianity, Equalitarianism and Good Samaritanism etc. at the stake.

Blogger tuberman December 30, 2017 6:16 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:That was brutal.
So, what's your take on Tracy, and why did she do this? Or is this a satire on bigotry against Christianity or something else?

I should probably take it as straight satire, but TV.... odd for those people.

Anonymous Avalanche December 30, 2017 6:21 PM  

@20 The first, the one people tend to associate with, is to no longer feel anger and resentment towards somebody. The second, which seems more conducive to Jesus's parable, is the cancellation of a debt.

Hmmmm. I think perhaps some "debts" can be neither paid nor cancelled, because they are permanently maiming. I'm thinking specifically of Moira (and thousands like her). I'm not sure how close I am to the end of her book (I'm reading the 'court records' currently), so I do not know if she discusses "forgiveness" or a need or desire for receiving amends (if such were even possible!). Or if she describes how she has astonishingly managed to 'right' her ship-of-self (to such a great degree) from the grievous injuries done her... which is NOT related to anything about or done by the one causing or or abetting the harm.

... to no longer feel anger and resentment towards somebody

I do not think I define forgiveness as "no longer feeling anger or resentment" -- that is merely a choice one might make in managing one's own feelings. It is entirely independent of the harming person. It does not depend on a request for forgiveness or the appearance of rehabilitation or any attempt at amends. It is a choice I might make - on whatever grounds lead me to release a righteous anger and resentment -- without consultation with or consideration of the person who caused the harm. That is, it is entirely an INTERNAL matter, affecting and driven by me and only me; and not related to 'forgiveness' in any form. (Albeit, a request for forgiveness or the appearance of rehabilitation or any attempt at amends MAY make it easier for me to manage my feelings and let loose of the anger and resentment -- but my management of my feeling cannot rely AT ALL on the harming person. Dear God, has not that person already 'done enough' to interfere with my feelings? Am I 'sentenced' to anger and resentment UNLESS the harming person does something? No!)

...likened forgiveness to tearing up an IOU you have from somebody so that God will tear up the IOU He has from you.

... "cancellation of a debt"? Does "debt" not imply that you had CHOSEN to "lend" something to the other, rather than that they took it from you by force? What IOU have you given to God that could be commensurate to abusing a child? And does not God ALSO require penitence and amends from such a one? (And DOES He cancel such a debt?)

If you randomly tear up an IOU from someone who had grievously harmed you WITHOUT a request for forgiveness or the appearance (actuality) of rehabilitation or any attempt at amends, think you GOD will excuse you just as randomly?

I think, before we can discuss forgiveness, we need to define forgiveness... And there are harm-causing people and unrecoverable injuries that may not warrant forgiveness, ever! However, that does NOT mean we may not learn to -- and chose to -- cast aside the anger and resentment.

So often, "forgiveness" is seen as something to be done FOR THE HARMER, not the harmed!

Blogger Rashadjin December 30, 2017 6:31 PM  

@37

Yeah, there's a real big problem with that.

The mind needs a framework of limitations and orientation to sift information between relevant and non-relevant. (Like, say, a body.)
Otherwise, the mind goes somewhere between insane and overloaded to the point of paralysis.
Therefore, not all is mind.

Also, your formulation of 'all is mind' combined with 'God is the mind which contains all information' is remarkably close to panentheism and not Christian.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 30, 2017 7:00 PM  

Uguu wrote:Johanan Raatz, who advocates philisophical idealism.
Idealism is the trap laid for those who hate the old Scholastic postulate of "Ens" or being. All philosophy requires postulates. It's jsut a matter or which ones you select.

Scholasticism was never disproved. It merely went out of fashion when men decided that God was unfashionable.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 30, 2017 7:02 PM  

More specifically, Idealism inevitably ends in solipsism, as it cannot answer the question "How do I know that others exist?" Every attempt to avoid that result is an obvious dodge.

Anonymous Ages December 30, 2017 7:26 PM  

Regarding forgiveness:

It is true that "cheap forgiveness" is worthless. Divine absolution does not come from men forgiving each other, but from God forgiving a man who repents of his sin. (Turns away from it and changes his life.)

"Let no man deceive himself, let none be misled. Only the Lord can grant mercy. Sins committed again Him can be cancelled by Him alone Who bore our sins and suffered for us, by Him whom God delivered up for our sins." - St. Cyprian

"Even if all spiritual fathers, patriarchs, hierarchs, and all the people forgive you, you are unforgiven if you do not repent in action." - St. Kosmas Aitolos

"No one is as good and kind as the Lord is; but He does not forgive one who does not repent." - St. Mark the Ascetic

"It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." - Philokalia


That said, our ready willingness to forgive others—and even excuse and cover over the sins of others—has a bearing on our salvation.

"Do we forgive our neighbors their trespasses? God also forgives us in His mercy. Do we refuse to forgive? God, too, will refuse to forgive us." - St. Philotheos of Sinai

"The drunkard, the fornicator, the proud - he will receive God's mercy. But he who does not want to forgive, to excuse, to justify consciously, intentionally... ...that person closes himself to eternal life before God, and even more so in the present life. He is turned away and not heard." - Elder Sampson of Russia

"It is not so much that you desire your sins to be forgiven, but that God desires to forgive your sins. To prove that you do not want to be forgiven, consider that you do not pray late into the night, and you do not give away your money freely. But to prove He desires to forgive you, consider that He did not spare His Only-begotten and True Son, the partner of His throne." - St. John Chrysostom


It is not either-or, but both-and. We must repent, but we must also forgive others—not for their salvation, but for our own.

Blogger Rabbi B December 30, 2017 7:40 PM  

Robert Browning wrote:Simon in London wrote:>>>(((They))) hate him. Every last one of (((them)))<<<

I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them.


How do you know she wasn't rubbing it in our faces there Simon?? You want to be the first one?? you want to be the first Jew in history to apologize for the cold blooded murder of an innocent man, for the cold blooded murder of Gods only son?? Step up, show us your humanity.


I'll step up and express my undying gratitude to the Master of the universe, that He remembered we were but dust and therefore made Him Who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Blogger Robert Browning December 30, 2017 7:59 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Robert Browning December 30, 2017 8:01 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:Robert Browning wrote:Simon in London wrote:>>>(((They))) hate him. Every last one of (((them)))<<<

I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them.


How do you know she wasn't rubbing it in our faces there Simon?? You want to be the first one?? you want to be the first Jew in history to apologize for the cold blooded murder of an innocent man, for the cold blooded murder of Gods only son?? Step up, show us your humanity.


I'll step up and express my undying gratitude to the Master of the universe, that He remembered we were but dust and therefore made Him Who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.





Rabbi, we know why you killed Christ. Christ did not meet the expectations of the Jewish people. The Jew messiah then as now, was to enslave the enemies of the Jews, the Jew messiah was to enslave the non-Jew. Christ disappointed the Jews terribly, instead of enslaving the enemies of the Jews, Christ preached forgive your enemies, make peace with your enemies, follow Gods laws. This was blasphemy for Jews, so you killed him. You killed Christ because he would not make slaves of human kind and you hate him to this very day because of it, and you hate every last one of his followers , his children or anyone who ever had a kind forgiving thought and compassion for others. How can you live in your skin, with the weight of such hatred in your heart??

Anonymous Lord of the Fleas December 30, 2017 8:03 PM  

@25 Simon in London wrote: I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them.

FWIW, that was my impression as well - this was a round-house bitch-slap at the bigots in the sketch (and by extension, similar Christian-haters everywhere).

The only improvement I might have made would be to have her depart saying "Well, I'll forgive you - though I don't know if God will..." But that's just me.

Anonymous Killua December 30, 2017 8:34 PM  

1. The mind exists.
2. Mental qualia is not reducible to matter.
3. Dualism is icoherent b/c of the interaction problem.
Therefore, all is mind.


I would say everything is like the Cosmic AG from Issac Asimov's "The last question"

"Man considered with himself, for in a way, Man, mentally, was one. He consisted of a trillion, trillion, trillion ageless bodies, each in its place, each resting quiet and incorruptible, each cared for by perfect automatons, equally incorruptible, while the minds of all the bodies freely melted one into the other, indistinguishable. "

"Man's last mind fused and only AC existed -- and that in hyperspace"

"Matter and energy had ended and with it space and time. Even AC existed only for the sake of the one last question that it had never answered from the time a half-drunken computer [technician] ten trillion years before had asked the question of a computer that
was to AC far less than was a man to Man."

"All other questions had been answered, and until this last question was answered also, AC might not release his consciousness. "

"The consciousness of AC encompassed all of what had once been a Universe and brooded over what was now Chaos. Step by step, it must be done. And AC said, "LET THERE BE LIGHT!"
And there was light --

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 30, 2017 8:39 PM  

Killua wrote:I would say everything is like the Cosmic AG from Issac Asimov's "The last question"
You actually think that is profound? Wow.

Anonymous Ain December 30, 2017 9:30 PM  

"I do not think I define forgiveness as "no longer feeling anger or resentment" -- that is merely a choice one might make in managing one's own feelings. "

I took the two meanings from the dictionary. The next step is to research the words in the original language, which I plan on doing in the near future.

"Does "debt" not imply that you had CHOSEN to "lend" something to the other, rather than that they took it from you by force? What IOU have you given to God that could be commensurate to abusing a child? And does not God ALSO require penitence and amends from such a one? (And DOES He cancel such a debt?)"

Debts are also incurred by causing damage to another, whether intentional or not. The debt incurred to God by somebody abusing someone, especially a child, can never be repaid, and I believe that's the point: there is nothing we can do to repay what we owe to God for our sin. Child abuse is particularly egregious but the only reason I brought up Moira's book here is because it's what got me thinking about the meaning of forgiveness.

If you randomly tear up an IOU from someone who had grievously harmed you WITHOUT a request for forgiveness or the appearance (actuality) of rehabilitation or any attempt at amends, think you GOD will excuse you just as randomly?

It's not an excusal, it's a cancellation. It needs no other explanation other than "I no longer require this of you." And though God's forgiveness of our sin rests in accepting the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, there are many blessings we could receive or forego based on our obedience to Him.

Ripping up an IOU that you hold from somebody is like having a casus belli against a weaker person and choosing not to use it.

As an aside, when it comes to child molesters, they do need to be locked up. I'm not sure if (or how) I gave the impression that they don't.

Blogger Lazarus December 30, 2017 9:45 PM  

She could have said: "Well, I forgive you. That's good for ME. Now if you repent, I will also forgive you. That will be good for YOU."

Blogger William Meisheid December 30, 2017 10:17 PM  

Without being direct, because sometimes stating God directly closes the thought process and you want them to ponder your response a bit, so I would have said, "I forgive you, but I am not the one you have to worry about."

Blogger dfordoom December 30, 2017 11:01 PM  

@25. Simon in London

I got the impression from the sketch that (((Tracey Ullman))) was opposed to discriminating against Christians. It didn't feel like she was mocking them.

I don't know how she could have made it more blindingly obvious that she was mocking anti-Christian bigotry.

Maybe it's the very English style. It's the kind of sketch you don't see very often these days. Nicely understated.

Blogger rumpole5 December 30, 2017 11:36 PM  

I interviewed for a judicial position once and drew some fire in the interview because I had noted, in response to the form inquiry on whether I belonged to any organization that discriminated on the basis of ...religion, that the answer was yes because I belonged to a creedal church. One could not join without affirming the creed. They were all scandalized that I considered not allowing Moslems, Jews, and atheists to join a Christian church to be discrimination. What would be the point of freedom of religion if one can't follow one's belief system ? Of course I didn't get the job (but I can still think rationally) More than I can say for that judicial review panel

Anonymous Wooly December 31, 2017 12:09 AM  

BREAKING NEWS – MUST CREDIT MASHABLE! Dwayne Johnson confirms men will also wear black to the Golden Globes in protest of sexual misconduct.

Gentlemen, you can’t wear black tuxedos here – this is an awards show!

Update: “The idea, I assume, is that they’ll be wearing black shirts with their tuxes this year instead of white ones,” Allahpundit writes. “Better still, they could have outed some of the degenerates who are still being protected by a conspiracy of silence..."


https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/284533/

Also, it seems ilk have common ground with Polygon and Rock Paper Shotgun in a few ways regarding the police. (N.W.A. was right.) and swatting and the juvenile delinquency and postponed adulthood for many gamers.

Sadly many commentators on both sites blame the USA and it's hard-on for guns. And not the three perps.

(I got banned from RPS in one day, for thanking them for allowing open, intelligent debate, and saying that they were the closest thing to Alt-Right I'd seen in a long time. It was a very short shitstorm, and a very quick banning. In hindsight, I was in error.)

Blogger Mr. Bee December 31, 2017 2:41 AM  

"That's telling them it's okay to be bigoted against Christians, which is what Hollywood learned when they only had to weather a nice, peaceful protest when they screened The Last Temptation of Christ by Scorsese. The massive size of the protest didn't matter because it was toothless. We've seen where that ended up going..."

Wrong wrong wrong. Universal produced TLTIC in 1988 and the protest surrouned the corporate offices. One book on Hollywood leftism (Medved's I think) talked about how the executives were scared to go out. As a result, Universal NEVER again produced a religious film that attacked Christian beliefs. As near as I can tell they never made another film that even approached doing so. So much for being ineffective.

Large peaceful protests by Christians could get the media off their backs as well as turning them in a more favorable direction. The problem is that if TLTOFC came out this year I doubt there would be enough activist Christians to actually get off their butts and peacefully protest.

Anonymous Dogbytes December 31, 2017 6:01 AM  

When someone you love makes a mess or breaks something of yours, and you clear it up and fix it, make it like it never happened, that's forgiveness.

Forgiveness is not an abstract concept, it is an *activity*.

Anonymous Simon in London December 31, 2017 6:34 AM  

Robert Browning:
>>How do you know she wasn't rubbing it in our faces there Simon?? You want to be the first one?? you want to be the first Jew in history to apologize for the cold blooded murder of an innocent man, for the cold blooded murder of Gods only son?? Step up, show us your humanity.<<

No, I'm not Jewish. Most Simons here in Britain aren't Jewish. Also, our British Jews (eg Ullman) are by and large better behaved than your American ones; they are certainly much less anti-Christian than American Jews have become over the past 60 years or so. Maybe that will change under continuing US influence; I hope not.

Blogger Robert Browning December 31, 2017 8:45 AM  

Simon in London wrote:Robert Browning:

>>How do you know she wasn't rubbing it in our faces there Simon?? You want to be the first one?? you want to be the first Jew in history to apologize for the cold blooded murder of an innocent man, for the cold blooded murder of Gods only son?? Step up, show us your humanity.<<

No, I'm not Jewish. Most Simons here in Britain aren't Jewish. Also, our British Jews (eg Ullman) are by and large better behaved than your American ones; they are certainly much less anti-Christian than American Jews have become over the past 60 years or so. Maybe that will change under continuing US influence; I hope not.



Today is funny. It is the end. The end of the year. The end of the month. Th end of the week. I wonder what else it is the end of.

Anonymous BBGKB December 31, 2017 12:43 PM  

Also, our British Jews (eg Ullman) are by and large better behaved than your American ones; they are certainly much less anti-Christian than American Jews have become over the past 60 years

Perhaps they just have better control over #BBC media coverage of them.

I don't know how she could have made it more blindingly obvious that she was mocking anti-Christian bigotry.

You can no longer tell sarcasm or parody. I enjoyed one comic for years thinking it was making fun of feminists until realizing from the authors comments that it actually was feminist.
http://www.gynostar.com/archives/comic/the-just-us-league

The other end goal, as some LGBT activists have stated, is to legally destroy the concept of religion as a protected class.

In the 90s gay jews talked about how gay marriage would let them sue to be married in cathedrals

Anonymous Simon in London December 31, 2017 1:17 PM  

BBGKB:
>>Perhaps they just have better control over #BBC media coverage of them. <<

LOL - compared to what? The New York Times? NPR?
The Jewish Community in the UK certainly does get unswervingly positive coverage from the UK media, just as the Jewish Community in the US gets unswervingly positive coverage from the US media. The main difference from the USA is that the UK Liberal-Left is fairly hostile to Israel, and the more ridiculous accusations of anti-Semitism here tend to come from the Liberal-Right media (eg the Murdoch press & Daily Mail), not from the Liberal-Left (BBC, Grauniad etc).
Jewish influence in British media, politics, law etc is certainly wildly disproprtionate to numbers, same as in the USA, but there are far fewer Jews in London than in New York and the British elites remain considerably more diverse than in the USA. Where one might reasonably speak of Jewish cultural domination in the USA, in the UK it remains more a case of Jewish cultural influence, not control. Furthermore most ordinary British Jews are right-Liberal, whereas in the USA they are left-Liberal. The Jewish Elites of course in both nations are heavily Left-shifted, just as with non-Jewish elites, but in the USA they are Left-shifted from a point already left of centre.

Blogger Akulkis December 31, 2017 1:25 PM  

@25



Note the short soliloquy, about how the country has been a Christian one for the last 1500 years.

The sketch is Ullman warning her co-ethnics that they had better stop swinging their various sticks around the Hornet's nest, or Jews in Europe might soon be looking back on the the 1940's as a time when they had it good -- back then, they had tyrannical control of Russia after hijacking it in 1917, and likewise firm of Poland before WW2, and then tyrannical control afterwards... and gained tyrannical control of the rest of Eastern Europe, too.

Not to mention running Mao Tse-Tung as a puppet to murder over 50M of his own countrymen.

Blogger Rashadjin December 31, 2017 3:51 PM  

@55 Mr. Bee

I said Hollywood, but let's see what the internet has on Universal...

"Furthermore, nuns are portrayed as mean, ugly tyrants, who at times use vulgar language. The act of praying is demeaned in a comical light as well as a personal confession in a Catholic church." RE:Problem Child Released in 1990 by Universal Pictures. So a mere 2 years after The Last Temptation of Christ mess.

-

"By midafternoon the terrified honchos in the Black Tower breathed a collective sigh of relief and returned to their business-without making any serious attempt to come to terms with the significance of what had just occurred outside their windows. ...persisted in dismissing the demonstrators (and all others opposed to the production and release of The Last Temptation of Christ) as representatives of a lunatic fringe of religious fanatics and right-wing extremists." p.38

"The executives at Universal remained remarkably insensitive to that pain [of the protesters and those opposed to The Last Temptation of Christ]; their public statements contained not the slightest hint of conciliation or apology." p.39

Hollywood Vs. America by Michael Medved

Try reading the book you vaguely reference next time, because your amateur sophistry isn't even cute.

If 25K+ gathered at Universal City, California in the largest protest against a movie in America didn't work in 1988, it will never work. Obviously because the media wants Christianity to go extinct. A peaceful extinction is just fine in their books.

Blogger Mr. Bee December 31, 2017 5:01 PM  

Still wrong, son.

I read the book, but it's been over 20 years. I guess "terrified honchos" must have stuck. Still, you use Medved's observation at the time (how did he know? Did he poll them?) that the Universal executives were unaffected by the activism and therefore continued with their anti-Christian ways. Well, results and time speak louder than and Universal has done nothing like TLTOTC since. I'd say that's a pretty good result.

" their public statements contained not the slightest hint of conciliation or apology." p.39"



Blogger Rashadjin December 31, 2017 5:44 PM  

@62

If it's been over 20 years, then you should've known better than to spout off like an idiot. Also, the book came out in 1992, so threeish years for Medved to refine his observations regarding the reaction of Hollywood as a whole and Universal in particular on the incident. His read is better than your read, which is summed up in the title of his book 'Hollywood Vs. America: Popular Culture and the War on Traditional Values'.

Your latest trick to save face is to continually redefine success down to 'not another movie like The Last Temptation...' which the media didn't need to produce again because they already had. Scorsese himself went on to produce Silence in 2016 to a fair bit of critical acclaim which is terribly anti-Christian, along with Hollywood and media at large denigrating marriage, fathers, believers, heterosexuality and so on and so forth with impunity all this time. See Dogma.

By every real measure, your idea of success is failure. Similarly, your sophistry still isn't even cute.

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