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Wednesday, January 03, 2018

When the carousel stops

Lee Jackson contemplates a Jezebel writer's realization that she is likely to die alone and unlamented:
Love and relationships are also, among other things, a marker of time. “Forever” frequently begins in love, though it is theoretically as tenuous as the single state. Looking ahead, if I really am riding this train to the end of the tracks, I don’t see any of the grand events in my future that help ground and timeline human existence, the events being in love provides. After my best friend got married she told me she cried all the next day, overwhelmed by the outpouring of affection from everyone she knew. She deserves it all, but years later, still single, I’ve realized that there will be no similar ceremonious acknowledgment of my life or my relationships with friends and family. Until I’m dead, I guess, but that won’t be very fun for me. Anchoring my existence without the signposts of commitment, or children, is a lot of work, and sometimes I feel myself giving up on it, drifting off into a grey directionless space in danger of floating completely away.
Time preferences are crucial. The strange thing is the way that many people still try to defend the choice of young women to delay marriage and children, despite the fact that these women are making essentially the same choice as your average street addict to choose short term pleasure over long term functionality.

Riding the carousel may not be as bad as crack or heroin, but it's probably worse for the average individual than staying stoned for eight straight years.

Labels:

126 Comments:

Anonymous johnc January 03, 2018 4:16 PM  

God and family first.

All of the other fleeting goods of life can't compare and won't bring contentment.

Blogger Zaklog the Great January 03, 2018 4:20 PM  

I made a video on just this subject a few weeks ago. It predictably ticked off a feminist I know because she felt it was devaluing older women.

https://youtu.be/EfGkZHzH53s

Anonymous vfm #0202 January 03, 2018 4:22 PM  

One day I discovered that I preferred clarity. Haven't touched the killer weed for 40 years.

I told my kids "No biggy, but you don't get the wasted years back". They're 420-negative.

Anonymous DaveInjustice January 03, 2018 4:38 PM  

At least when people quit crack they can start over and make something of themselves.

Anonymous Manwe January 03, 2018 4:41 PM  

I wonder if a realization later in life on the part of both men and women that they screwed up by not marrying and having children is leading to the drugs and suicide epidemic among the middle aged.

Anonymous Grayman January 03, 2018 4:42 PM  

@2

Older women and older men have huge value.... as mentors, grandparents etc. Their value is not in their simple existence and pursuit of fleeting pleasure.
Of course the average feminist anti-child prog has negative value to society as they are ultimately leaches on the society as a whole, doing little except stir up the velocity of money on occasion

Blogger The Observer January 03, 2018 4:44 PM  

Muh sexual liberation, muh sexual choice, muh equality, etc, etc, etc.

Blogger DonReynolds January 03, 2018 4:46 PM  

Only 15 percent of young men (under 30) are married. This is actually a big sea change in this country and the ripple effects of that fact will echo long after we are all dead and gone.

That does not mean that 15 percent of young men have children. There is nothing unusual about young couples having no children at all when they head to divorce court. Nor is marriage a necessary or essential element to child bearing and child rearing....half or more of all live births are illegitimate. Among Negroes and Hispanics, the illegitimate rate can be 70 percent or more.

Blogger tz January 03, 2018 4:46 PM  

 but it's probably worse for the average individual than staying stoned for eight straight years.

I think the biblical penalty for adultery of being stoned would only last 8 minutes.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. January 03, 2018 4:47 PM  

The most ironic unintended *cough* consequence of feminism is that 3rd+ wavers' only value, for a man, is in sexual gratification (if and when it's even that).

Blogger Johnny January 03, 2018 4:47 PM  

Helen Gurley Brown used to come on TV as one of the regulars in the for women daytime talk shows. Circumstance caused me to see it. She wrote the book "Sex and the Single Girl," and became the editor of Cosmopolitan. Her line as she talked it on TV was that "You can have it all." By "all" she meant the career and man you want at the same time. At the time I thought she meant work twenty hours a day being a wife and mother, and then a career at the same time. Apparently on a functional level it meant humping men while working at your career, and then imagining the man you want will pick you over a younger and less 'sexually experienced' women.

And as most of us know, when it doesn't turn out the problem is that men are not the way they are supposed to be. But so far efforts at correcting the male population have not been a great success. Too many men have their own ideas and don't want to be fixed.

Blogger tz January 03, 2018 4:48 PM  

The next T-Shirt for women should say:

"I'm a virgin, seeking a man to marry and support me so I can be Mommy".

That would attract the right kind of attention from men.

And the wrong kind of attention from women.

Maybe you should consider a line of CCW wear?

Blogger Matthew Funk January 03, 2018 4:49 PM  

Sex and the City vs. Fulfilling life

Choose one, choose wisely

Anonymous Jerome Horowitz January 03, 2018 4:51 PM  

But Jane Fonda says 80 is the new 50..../sarc

Anonymous Bob January 03, 2018 4:53 PM  

A childless feminist is in the end a plus, isn't it?

Blogger szopen January 03, 2018 5:00 PM  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern

Anonymous KRYST January 03, 2018 5:00 PM  

Bob wrote:A childless feminist is in the end a plus, isn't it?

yes. just like a dead jewish banking family that dies in a costa rican airplane accident.
irony: they were j-e-t-s fans lolllllllllzzzzzzzlzzzzzzzzzzzol

total positive net gain.

Anonymous Deplorable me January 03, 2018 5:05 PM  

"Anchoring my existence without the signposts of commitment, or children, is a lot of work"

We need a massive red pill for society (which I hope Trump delivers), as far too many women have fallen into this trap without being rabid feminists. Socially, we need a greater emphasis on marriage, family and motherhood first, with any sort of career coming later.

Anonymous Grayman January 03, 2018 5:07 PM  

Makes you wonder, along the lines of mousetopia, is there some sort of selection pressure such that they "defective" are failing to reproduce while the "fit" are reproducing. granted our version of fitness and the universes' version may be very different things.

Breeding patterns over the next decade or 2 should be interesting

Blogger Aeoli January 03, 2018 5:10 PM  

In the end I don't generally blame the women who self-destruct because that's what they're told to do in our culture. It's in the nature of women to conform to the culture, and I think it's a mistake to treat them like rational economic actors. It's not their job to be rational or even to act.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume January 03, 2018 5:11 PM  

Way OT but does anybody think this is just a coincidence?

http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/local/westchester/new-castle/2018/01/03/fire-reported-clintons-house-chappaqua/1001102001/

Anonymous Grayman January 03, 2018 5:11 PM  

@17

"Grrrl power" & feminism is abhorrent. Think about what it really means......
It means if you can't do something to the same level as a man, then as a woman you are of little value and that standards must be lowered for the sake of your self esteem..... raising children with all the skill and work that entails is a waste of your time..... sitting behind a desk fighting for a raise or new title is of more value then nurturing and raising another human.....
That desk that doesn't care about you, the pointless meetings that will leave you with nothing when you are older are worth more than the memories of playing with your children, helping them discover the world, and building a family that will always be there for you as well as bearing the imprint of all the lessons and love that a mother provider, long after her death.....

That is the abomination of "gggrrrrrllll power" and feminism

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2018 5:12 PM  

"Anchoring my existence without the signposts of commitment...is a lot of work"

It's not a lot of work. It's impossible. If you aren't committed to family, you can be committed to God, community, a political, charity, etc. But without sine kind of commitment, what on earth would you be anchored to? Yourself? That's just waiting around for your appetites to refill.

You know what's hard work? Despair. Kierkegaard called it the sickness unto death. That's what you face in the absence of signposts and commitment: hopelessness. It's one of the most intolerable states to be in as a human. And our culture encourages it.

Along with despair, you get angst, or fear. When I used to live for nothing but fulfilling my appetites, I was scared all the time. Not in a jump-scare sense, but in a low-key impending doom sense. I had recurring nightmares about showing up on my college campus and realizing I had missed too many classes to possibly graduate. That sort of thing.

Along with despair and angst, there's also the modern sickness: ennui, or boredom. Material existence is BORING, and jumping from bed to bed especially so. It becomes an elaborate form of masturbation after not too long.

All of which is tolerable when you're in your teens and 20s, after which you still have time to "settle down." But it get exponentially worse when you realize life is long and your body starts falling apart on you.

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2018 5:15 PM  

@14-Better than a children feminist, but is that the choice? We should be trying harder to stop creating feminists in the first place.

Blogger Kep Hartman January 03, 2018 5:15 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Kep Hartman January 03, 2018 5:17 PM  

Disney and progressive feminism (BIRM) have ruined women.

On the one hand they have come to expect a handsome prince as their birthright, thus nullifying the reality that many SMV 4-6's would be fortunate in their life to get a gamma and turn him into a beta.

On the other hand they feel entitled in the name of freedom/pro-choice to ride the chad carousel until they find their prince, which they won't, because no prince will marry a carousel-rider.

Young women are damned either way if they play that game, and (((they))) have structured our society for that zeitgeist.

Fortunately, a few good women don't play that game. Mostly from the South and rural areas.

Anonymous bbgkb January 03, 2018 5:19 PM  

I think that letting girls know about the huge drop in fertility rates would help stem the problem. Its the part our education system has covered up the most

OT- Magic dirt http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/24/after-decades-of-gop-support-cubans-shifting-toward-the-democratic-party/

Anonymous JN January 03, 2018 5:24 PM  

She'll always have her cats.

Blogger The Observer January 03, 2018 5:25 PM  

Makes you wonder, along the lines of mousetopia, is there some sort of selection pressure such that they "defective" are failing to reproduce while the "fit" are reproducing. granted our version of fitness and the universes' version may be very different things.

Breeding patterns over the next decade or 2 should be interesting


Modernity selects for those who are best able to resist it. The only reason why behaviours like feminism haven't self-selected themselves into oblivion is that it's always stopped by reality and collapse before all the adherents can wipe themselves out.

Mostly from the South and rural areas.

Cities have always been a blight upon humanity, not just as population and IQ sinks, but the nature of urban living lends itself to degeneracy.

Not to sound like a technological utopianist, but I do hope that advances in communications, transportation and 3-D printing will make cities largely irrelevant in the future.

It becomes an elaborate form of masturbation after not too long.

Strictly speaking, any sex not geared towards eventual family formation can be thought of as elaborate masturbation.

Anonymous Son of Liberty January 03, 2018 5:25 PM  

You can blame them. God still punished eve for her sin

Blogger Lovekraft January 03, 2018 5:25 PM  

On the flipside, the fact so many men have been ostracized and pushed away because they haven't bought into the family scene, are not a total loss, as they are free to pursue deeper avenues of contemplation.

And should society ever get around to freeing the youth from under the normies/feminists, there would be a vast resource pool of advice and wisdom.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab January 03, 2018 5:28 PM  

Better to have your kids young when you have the energy to keep up. This sex and the city crap is as slow a suicide as joining the shakers.

Anonymous GenXsly January 03, 2018 5:28 PM  

Oh wow, just read some of the comments to her blog posts. #HamsterNeverTires

Anonymous BBGKB January 03, 2018 5:34 PM  

the huge drop in fertility rates (with age) would help stem the problem.

Blogger lowercaseb January 03, 2018 5:35 PM  

Brick Hardslab wrote:Better to have your kids young when you have the energy to keep up.

I was the last of six kids over a 30 year span. My mom give me the same advice to my sisters.

Anonymous Steve Canyon January 03, 2018 5:39 PM  

I don't see any real difference. She went from writing "look at me" stories about her fabulous single life and male attention to writing "look at me I'm 40 and want to get married" stories. Anyone tell her Maureen Dowd already blazed that well-travelled trail?

And what if she found some nice Jewish schlub to tie the knot? She'd mommy blog about the umpteenth time her kid spewed spittle and oh how hard motherhood is (even with a nanny, maid, and professional chef).

Blogger The Remnant January 03, 2018 5:46 PM  

Only a stout few can enjoy a solo lifestyle for the duration. Today's tragedy is that a lot of people are falling (or being pushed) into this lifestyle and end up miserable or destructive.

Blogger S. Misanthrope January 03, 2018 5:49 PM  

I married young but delayed having children, and I noticed a similar thing when my grandma would call and ask what was happening. I'd have nothing really to say, because, while stuff did happen at work or in life, it wasn't grand enough to warrant a "family update." Since I'd already gotten married, I figured she'd die before I had anything major to tell her again.

Not a reason to have kids, really, but it's kinda nice to have things of interest to tell people who are trying to express love and connection with you.

I'm not religious, but ultimately I realized the traditional sacraments were identified because there is no substitute for them. You can't experience marriage via serial monogamy, you can't experience parenthood via helping out relatives, you can't wrap your head around birth and death via textbooks and YouTube videos. I didn't want to skip this enormous chunk of human life, so Baby 1 is on the way :)

Anonymous GenXsly January 03, 2018 5:52 PM  

Steve Canyon:

Then she would blog about how things "just weren't working out" with her husband and that "Something.Must.Change", complete with the usual disclaimers as part of the set up for the reveal, like "I have to say I was the LAST person I ever thought would divorce...but..."

Then we would get blogs about how difficult it is to be a single mom, and how "Steve's a really nice guy and great father", but the fact is, she needs to restrict his time with his kids...and how "everyone" is trying to "work" with him to INSERT MADE UP PROBLEM THAT HE CANNOT QUITE SUE HER OVER... and how all her friends are begging her to go for sole custody with only supervised visits for Steve, and how they keep telling her how strong she is...and how disappointed that the $2,000 in child support and $1,500 in Alimony "really isn't all that much" and "actually ends in 18 years..."

I still cannot believe anyone voted to let women vote.

Anonymous GenXsly January 03, 2018 5:53 PM  

Steve Canyon:

Then she would blog about how things "just weren't working out" with her husband and that "Something.Must.Change", complete with the usual disclaimers as part of the set up for the reveal, like "I have to say I was the LAST person I ever thought would divorce...but..."

Then we would get blogs about how difficult it is to be a single mom, and how "Steve's a really nice guy and great father", but the fact is, she needs to restrict his time with his kids...and how "everyone" is trying to "work" with him to INSERT MADE UP PROBLEM THAT HE CANNOT QUITE SUE HER OVER... and how all her friends are begging her to go for sole custody with only supervised visits for Steve, and how they keep telling her how strong she is...and how disappointed that the $2,000 in child support and $1,500 in Alimony "really isn't all that much" and "actually ends in 18 years..."

I still cannot believe anyone voted to let women vote.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) January 03, 2018 5:59 PM  

I didn't want to skip this enormous chunk of human life, so Baby 1 is on the way :)

Congrats

Blogger Simon Truman January 03, 2018 6:01 PM  

< 30 and on my second kid. Life is great.

Blogger Longtime Lurker January 03, 2018 6:03 PM  

Feminism is stronger than biology, apparently.

Blogger rumpole5 January 03, 2018 6:03 PM  

Today we received word that my son passed the practical exam toward his DO! I can attest that the triumphs of offspring are even sweeter than one's own remembered. Produce a kid you youngsters, you'll like it!

Blogger Wynn Lloyd January 03, 2018 6:06 PM  

Congratulations!

Anonymous J. Spicoli January 03, 2018 6:09 PM  

Stoned is way better, Dude.

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2018 6:10 PM  

@28-Not all non-procreative sex is masturbatory, unless you're using a ridiculously expansive definition of masturbation. Masturbation is not simply fruitless gratification. It's supposed to be something you do to yourself.

To my mind, bed-hopping might as well be something you do to yourself. At least after the novelty of doing it with other people wears off, which shouldn't take long. Sexual gratification within a committed relationship, or at least with someone with whom you share an emotional and intellectual connection, may not be meaningful but it's not masturbation.

Blogger S. Misanthrope January 03, 2018 6:19 PM  

Thanks, Josh!

Blogger weka January 03, 2018 6:23 PM  

The house was Arkencided. So, no.

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2018 6:25 PM  

@30-Men of genius have a relatively high incidence of childlessness and bachelorhood. We might have benefited from their achievements, such as they are, anyway. But there us some connection between either repelling or simply staying away from women and the deeper contemplation. Though in many cases we may wish they had been too busy raising broods.

From the book Darwinian Fairytales, I find this list of unfruitful males: Newton, Faraday, Mendel, Vivaldi, Handel, Beethoven, Gibbon, Macaulay, Carlyle, Plato, Aquinas, Bacon, Locke, Leibniz, Hume, Kant, Mill, Copernicus, Swift, Adam Smith, Samuel Johnson, Haydn, and Galton.

Of course, geniuses have kids, too. J.S. Bach had an awful lot of them. And most men need never worry about the burden of genius, and can have as many as they're able without the world missing out.

I'm not sure there's any connection between female genius and mothering . There just aren't enough women at that level to say. Maybe there is on a lower level. For instance on the Jane Austen level.

Safe to say we probably wouldn't miss the mighty contributions to civilization carousel-riders wouldn't be giving us if they were to never hop on the carousel in the first place.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 03, 2018 6:28 PM  

Love and relationships are also, among other things, a marker of time. “Forever” frequently begins in love, though it is theoretically as tenuous as the single state.

Who writes like that. She sounds like a pretentious nutcase, which may be why she is still single!

Anonymous Tyson January 03, 2018 6:32 PM  

There's a song that keep popping up on the radio station by a female singer called die alone. I think someone is trying to give a warning.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky January 03, 2018 6:32 PM  

GenXsly wrote:I still cannot believe anyone voted to let women vote.

The winning argument was the civilizing effect of women. And among women of the 1920s that may have seemed a good argument. Few people then fully perceived the corrosiveness that feminism was bound to bring. And that civilizational argument is ironically how feminism, one the most dyscivic forces in human history, got its nose under the tent.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2018 6:35 PM  

a deplorable rubberducky wrote:The winning argument was the civilizing effect of women.

If women have a civilizing effect, then civilization is bad.

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2018 6:38 PM  

@51-That's a horribly silly argument, if true. Because women already had their civilizing--if they have it at all--through family. What would giving them the vote add? More civil politicians? Let politicians' wives and mothers take care of that.

Blogger papabear January 03, 2018 6:40 PM  

Women do not have a civilizing effect; they may domesticate or henpeck, but ideally they only inspire men to take a wife and form a family and submit to his headship. Men civilize one other, and to have a higher civilization one must have higher-quality men.

Blogger SemiSpook37 January 03, 2018 6:43 PM  

So glad I never actually contributed to the carousel, and that my wife never took part in it, herself. Sure, she may have an MA in Education, but she’s perfectly content to being a SAHM, though she does fill in on some duties for a friend or two, as their situations warrant the two-income solution.

I don’t think I’ve ever once demanded that she stop the SAHM act to even pursue a part-time career of any sort. It’s not fair to our children, and it’s certainly not fair to her. It’s up to me to keep the income stream flowing, and while it’s been tough to do so recently, we’re still getting by without too much of an issue.

And that’s what “Love” is that these Jez hags don’t seem to understand. Regardless of whether she gives you one child or one dozen, you show her you’re willing to sacrifice things for the survival of the family unit, she should be willing to sacrifice things for the survival of the human race.

Women don’t need to succeed in a man’s world. They never did. That’s what these feminists don’t seem to understand.

Blogger Zerk J January 03, 2018 6:49 PM  

I would argue that staying single can result from too low a time preference. If you keep putting it off till tomorrow, eventually you miss your opportunity altogether. Young people are often taught the opposite in our culture, however.

Anonymous Elder Son January 03, 2018 6:50 PM  

You know society is regressing when your ancestors (g-gp's and older) were having 6 to 16+ children.

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2018 6:51 PM  

My corollary to Paglia's famous statement is:

If civilization were left in the hands of men, we would all be living in deer camps.

Yes, men build civilization, but we do it for women. It's just a great nest really. That is civilizing effect that women have on men.

And the only one needed.

Anonymous TD January 03, 2018 6:56 PM  

Destroying more evidence?

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 03, 2018 7:01 PM  

Few people then fully perceived the corrosiveness that (((feminism))) was bound to bring. And that civilizational argument is ironically how feminism, one the most dyscivic forces in human history, got its nose under the tent.

FIFY.

Blogger Jed Mask January 03, 2018 7:05 PM  

Like first commenter @johnc says... *GOD AND FAMILY* folks...

Get that *FIRST*!

Like everyone else been saying: *TELL THOSE YOUNG WOMEN!*.

Tell 'em, tell 'em, tell 'em however you can.

It's what I strive to do in my everyday life in interaction in the public and society whenever I have opportunity in the Lord to effect CHANGE small and great.

Not talk. Just *DOING*. Amen.

~ Bro. Jed

Blogger Nate73 January 03, 2018 7:07 PM  

What I don't get is why we can't have a system where women have kids in their fertility window (~17-25 range) and then after they hit 30 they go be somebody's secretary or the real estate agent or something. They live freakin longer than men anyway so they have plenty of time to be CEO and get bored and quit.

Blogger Johnny January 03, 2018 7:13 PM  

The state (or territory) of North Dakota voted in female suffrage way ahead of everybody. The men in the region wanted to attract women and it didn't work. That I know of there is not a single documented case of a women moving to the territory so she could vote. It is not clear how much women wanted the vote.

When they did vote in suffrage the first big social change was probation. A difficulty in enforcement was that the Midwest was full of Central European types that regarded drinking as a birthright. It was unenforceable, actually encouraged alcohol consumption, and did a lot for organized crime. A failure all around.

As for, "If civilization were left in the hands of men, we would all be living in deer camps." No. Actually if it were left up to men we would all be living in castles and for recreation, spending our weekends with lowered lances as we charged into other men on our noble steeds.

Anonymous Elmer Fudd January 03, 2018 7:26 PM  

"Jane Fonda says 80 is the new 50 ..."

Jane Fonda had work done so that her 80-year-old face wouldn't look 80 years old. But now her plastic face makes her look creepy and deranged.

Oh, wait ...

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2018 7:33 PM  

@63:

That is the era of courtly love. Q.E.D.

Blogger Feather Blade January 03, 2018 7:34 PM  

Nate73 wrote:What I don't get is why we can't have a system where women have kids in their fertility window (~17-25 range) and then after they hit 30 they go be somebody's secretary or the real estate agent or something. They live freakin longer than men anyway so they have plenty of time to be CEO and get bored and quit.

That used to be the way it was, at least in my neck of the woods. You have your kids, and when the youngest of them is in school you either get a secretarial gig at the university, or you take classes and get a degree, or both.

That's why all university secretaries used to be middle-aged women, and now the vast majority of them are barely out of school.

Anonymous The Observer January 03, 2018 7:38 PM  

@47:

Apologies. What I should have clarified by "family formation" means not just procreative sex, but that intended to form and structure bonds between parents, or prospective parents. I'll quote antidem on this, because it's pretty much the definition I subscribe to:

My definition will, for reasons that I’m sure are obvious, be a strongly Catholic-tinged and male-centric one. Let’s start with this: Our brains are hard-wired to reward us for productive activity (here I mean “productive” in a “survival of the species” sense, not in a capitalistic “I sure got a lot done at the office today” sense). For example, sugar and fat naturally taste good to us because they are high in calories, and consuming every last calorie that one possibly could maximized the chances of survival during the hundreds of thousands of years during which humans were hunter-gatherers living at the edge of starvation. Sex naturally feels good to us in order to encourage reproduction. Even hard physical labor – necessary and universal among early humans – releases endorphins into our system, which reward us. In addition to physical rewards for productive behavior, there are rewards that are coded into our psychology as well. For example, young men naturally dream of adventure and heroism because young men are naturally the best hunters and the best at defending a tribe when it is under assault by other tribes; thus, a psychological mechanism that makes them want to perform these dangerous, objectively unpleasant tasks is highly advantageous. Also, man became the true king of the animals not through superior physical strength, but through his ability to think and to find creative solutions to the problems of survival. Because of this, we gain pleasure from pattern-recognition and problem-solving; there is a psychological reward mechanism built into us for successfully working our way through puzzles, and the more difficult and frustrating the puzzle, the greater the psychological reward for solving it.

Which brings us to masturbation. Masturbation can be defined as any activity that short-circuits our internal reward mechanisms by simulating, and gaining the reward for, a productive behavior without actually doing anything productive. The time, effort, and resources put into that simulation, by any measure other than simply delivering pleasure, have been wasted.

This radically expands the traditional definition of masturbation. For example, the productive purposes of sex are 1) reproduction and 2) to build up the sort of pair bonding between a male and a female that’s conducive to family formation. Therefore, any sex act that does not fulfill one or both of these productive purposes, whether done alone or with a partner, can be defined as a form of masturbation (the often-heard definition of homosexual sex as “one man masturbating into another man’s rectum” is relevant here).


Hence, for "sexual gratification within a committed relationship, or at least with someone with whom you share an emotional and intellectual connection", if you're not intending to wife her up, it's masturbation in my book. Elaborate and complicated masturbation, but masturbation nevertheless.

Blogger Smokey Dust January 03, 2018 7:41 PM  

In my 20s I thought I get the last laugh in regards to the carousel riding ladies but in my 30s watching these ladies come to terms with the emptiness of their lives isn’t very enjoyable at all, even when they are openly my enemy.

Anonymous The Observer January 03, 2018 7:42 PM  

@64:

That's because of the idea of equality. In order to have muh ekqualitee, women must follow the life path of men in the exact same pattern - or at least, what they perceive to be the life paths of men. Which means wasting all their fertile years.

It is a self-solving problem.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 03, 2018 7:57 PM  

A history of casual sex is far worse than a history of drug abuse. Sex cuts to the core of who we are.

Memories of sexual activities are there for the rest of ones life. If they're with the one you love and marry, they're a fantastic album, but if they're from relationships past, all they are is nightmare undermining happiness.

Our entire society lies to young people about sex. It's almost like Satan is scripting it all....

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim January 03, 2018 8:01 PM  

John and Sarah Edwards also had a heck of a lot of kids, and grandkids.

Anonymous Godfrey January 03, 2018 8:01 PM  

Oh come on now! What could be more fulfilling than 40 plus years in a cubicle? The process of falling love, marriage, and the deeply meaningful and beautiful experience of two lovers literally becoming one in a new life?

No way man! I want the liberation that only the meaningless confinement in a cubicle for 40 plus years working for some asshole can bring!

Don't you guys understand what life is really about.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 03, 2018 8:30 PM  

Godfrey, the sad, sad joke is that so many young women bought into the very thing you satirized.

Is this a feedback loop from essy-peazy divorce? Do so few kids grow up witnessing the joys of marital devotion and the power of a complementary relationship?

I blame it on the perpetual adolescence that sprouts from this absurd debt-based plenitude. When either interest rates rise and collapse the vast bond market or they stay low and collapse the pension system, hardship will force many people to grow up, while the most zealous cultists wither and die.

Blogger haus frau January 03, 2018 8:47 PM  

She's not just a fool but has lead others astray down the same destructive path. No sympathy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 03, 2018 9:05 PM  

Godfrey wrote:No way man! I want the liberation that only the meaningless confinement in a cubicle for 40 plus years working for some asshole can bring!
Cubicles are sooooo 20th century. Nobody gets cubicles any more. Now you get a slot at a table with 10" high dividers separating you from your neighbors. And it's not your slot. you have to take everything home at the end of the day and anyone who gets there earlier can take it.
I'd like to have a cubicle. It would be such an improvement.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky January 03, 2018 9:18 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Cubicles are sooooo 20th century.

My wife is in the Fortune 500 Rat Race where the trend these days is "hoteling". It's monstrous and soul crushing. Nobody knows where they are placed until they show up for work. Your personal space moves every day. No time to nest it! I suppose they do that as an extra soul-crushing dig to the girls.

She never knows where she'll be or who will be sitting around her. No time for team building, no time, no time. Punch the clock and call again tomorrow, when we've changed everything beneath your feet again on you. You're welcome.

It is insanity. And it's no doubt concocted by an SJW. Talk about cruelty artists.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright January 03, 2018 10:36 PM  

I have been thinking about this for a couple of years...that many of the modern choices won't seem so wise in thirty years.

I wish there were a quicker way for them to learn.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright January 03, 2018 10:42 PM  

Nate73: Because all the customs for dating and finding a good mate have broken down. Young people aren't set up on dates with prospective partners, they are shunted into the work force.

Worse, no one tells girls anymore that they should want to be wives and mothers, quite the opposite...so they have to wait for the glitter to wear off and to discover it on their own.

By that time, they are older and have messed themselves up with birth control chemicals.

It's like Santa Claus but 100% times worse...everyone in society is lying to them.

Blogger Thucydides January 03, 2018 10:47 PM  

Pretty sad when your "time marker" is when you go to the shelter to pick up a new cat....

Anonymous Anonymous January 03, 2018 10:57 PM  

Keep in mind current American women are so toxic plus sky high chance of being divorce-raped and you will see why.

Blogger Lazarus January 03, 2018 11:07 PM  

Worse, no one tells girls anymore that they should want to be wives and mothers, quite the opposite...so they have to wait for the glitter to wear off and to discover it on their own.

At which time, they can be be schmoozed by savvy men who need a place to stay off and on for maintenance on the property or other favors.

If the women can't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

Blogger Lazy Hero January 04, 2018 12:08 AM  

A few years ago I met a friend who had some neighbors tagging along at a music venue/bar. I'd met the neighbors before and they remembered me. They brought along their cousin visiting from NYC. She was around my middle age, had large implants, but had gotten chunky. She droned on and on about NYC, back in the day stories, etc. She told me she was going to be visiting all week. Wished her a good time.

Trust me, if your a single men women will start to chase you as they age, but by then you're probably not going to want them.

Blogger pdwalker January 04, 2018 12:09 AM  

To paraphrase one of those Great Books for Men;

ya reap what ya sow, cupcake.

Blogger Lazy Hero January 04, 2018 12:11 AM  

Zaglog, watching your vids. Good job, brother.

Anonymous Didas Kalos January 04, 2018 12:33 AM  

And then at the end of one's life, after leaving this body behind, all will have to stand before God the Creator and answer for everything done in their body. Judgment. There is no retaking of this test. We get one single shot at it. And time is not waiting on anyone, not even the most beautiful or intelligent or most wealthy!

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2018 12:41 AM  

If you haven't been in an abusive relationship shut the hell up.

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2018 12:47 AM  

Im hearing the most crappy arguments ever. Women don't need marriage or kids they (like ys all) need a SPIRITAL AWAKENING. She yearns for signposts cos her life is meaningkess but for millions of unsaved souls out there these signposts are just disractions that keep people busy busy busy, ignoring the inevitable for as long as they can.we all dace the jydgement seat and our rites of passage stave off depression, not the inevitable.

Anonymous Svensons January 04, 2018 12:57 AM  

It isn't. The goal of Christianity is to convert the nations, then live chaste lives and slowly ebb away; Augustine knew this (see Of the Good of Widowhoo, Of the Good of Marriage).

The Bible does not teach that life is a gift, in fact, quite the opposite if you read Matthew 26:24. For most people it would indeed have been better if they would have never been born.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 04, 2018 1:05 AM  

@Svensons
If that were true, any sane or healthy man would reject Christianity out of hand. Don't project your mental illness on Christ, you worthless cuck.

Blogger DonReynolds January 04, 2018 1:24 AM  

Elder Son wrote:You know society is regressing when your ancestors (g-gp's and older) were having 6 to 16+ children.

During the pre-Industrial age, demographers estimated population by a known constant at the time....fifty times annual births. There were no birth certificates or vital statistics, but births were somewhat reliably recorded in a Christian society by the churches.

During much of American history (until a century ago) women averaged 13 children. Some had fewer and some had more and some had none at all, but the average figure was 13 kids. This seems to be the natural rate with fairly nominal medical technology....and before oral contraceptives. This pattern was disturbed by the Great Depression and two World Wars and never returned.

Blogger Bob Loblaw January 04, 2018 1:25 AM  

Because all the customs for dating and finding a good mate have broken down. Young people aren't set up on dates with prospective partners, they are shunted into the work force.

Men were always shunted into the work force. The difference is women are now made to feel they don't have any "accomplishments" if the start a family instead of finding a cubicle somewhere.

Raising children is no longer considered an accomplishment. It's a chore, something you put off as long as you possibly can and then minimize the effort involved by paying strangers to do much of the work.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 04, 2018 1:27 AM  

Time preferences are crucial. The strange thing is the way that many people still try to defend the choice of young women to delay marriage and children, despite the fact that these women are making essentially the same choice as your average street addict

I wonder if the real time preference fail is on the people not telling young women what a mistake they are making. What are the short term incentives for various groups to perpetuate the carousel?

Alpha males - young poon, plus mature poon willing to do pretty much anything for some attention, as long as the carousel turns.

Delta males - short term, they don't get screamed at for trying to thwart the female imperative.

Gamma & Omega males - like it would matter what they did anyway.

Single women - Every young, pretty woman still on the carousel is one less rival competing for a good man to marry.

Woman married to a beta/delta/gamma - same as "Single Women" above once the inevitable divorce is finalized. Meanwhile, non-Alpha hubby not likely to be one of the stallions on the carousel...


The only real short-term losers in the carousel system are Beta males and women married to Alphas. Both are, by nature, deferential to the Alpha men they attach themselves to.

Long-term, everyone is a loser due to the dyscivic effects.

It really is men's fault. Alpha men anyway.

Blogger Mom January 04, 2018 1:33 AM  

Bach was an eighth child. Mozart was a seventh. Beethovan was a fifth. Most of our presidents came from or had large families. (Only Ford was an only child.) Washington was the fifth of ten. John and Sarah Edwards had eleven!

Blogger Mom January 04, 2018 1:44 AM  

Congratulations!
You'll never regret it.
The Bible teaches that children are a blessing from God. Blessings that are sweet and cuddly are some of the best!

Anonymous JamesD January 04, 2018 5:38 AM  

There's always the anti-depressents.

Blogger GithYankee January 04, 2018 5:47 AM  

As a childless man in my late 40's who made similar bad choices when younger, I would urge nothing else in life, but that young people have kids in their early 20's. No matter what the money, the life situation, whatever. IT WILL WORK OUT.
My parents would have put us up. Her parents would have put us up. Her brothers and sisters would have helped with babysitting. I worked 60 hours a week for 20 years, so turns out not finding work wasn't a problem. The peak oil apocalypse never materialized. Have the kid. Take it from someone who didn't. Have the kid. I urged a couple 29 year old's at work into having children, and so glad I did. Taking pride in other peoples' kids is literally all I have. Don't be me. Have the kid.

Blogger szopen January 04, 2018 6:04 AM  

Well, then there is that:

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051

Here is a quote:
The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.

In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.

In teen’s brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing—and not necessarily at the same rate. That’s why when teens experience overwhelming emotional input, they can’t explain later what they were thinking. They weren’t thinking as much as they were feeling.


In other words, you can't really expect average young women and men to think rationally on their own. There have to be cultural constraints and cultural pressure. And the parents :D

Blogger Aeoli January 04, 2018 6:31 AM  

You can blame them. God still punished eve for her sin

For disobedience. Feminist career whores are just doing as they're told by parents, churches, schools, and media.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. January 04, 2018 6:54 AM  

I think that letting girls know about the huge drop in fertility rates would help stem the problem.

If you get to them before exposure to the Narrative.

Rational human being: Western women aren't even breeding at replacement rate.

Stronk indepenynt gash: We're just doing our part to keep population under control. The Earth is full, ya know? *slams shot of Jäger, takes selfie*

Blogger B.J. January 04, 2018 9:59 AM  

>I think that letting girls know about the huge drop in fertility rates would help stem the problem.

I explained this to a female friend but she went and asked her OBGYN (a woman) who told her she could have kids into her 40's no problem. I'm not a doctor so I was outranked. I consider that egregious malpractice but oh well, I tried. The evil runs deep I'm afraid.

Blogger Redpill Angel January 04, 2018 10:03 AM  

The article is heartbreaking. But if reasonably bright women are to be convinced to marry and have families, best not sugar-coat it. High IQ women embraced feminism because they saw clearly that childbirth and childrearing is sacrificial in nature. There is no getting around it. It hurts, women used to die, it causes stretch marks, and you don't have time to read. Young women sadly bought the short-term argument, because it is convincing on the surface. (And I don't believe casual sex the real lure for these young women -- except for attention.) We've basically farmed out childbirth to the stupid. Of course, in the long-term, marriage, family and children bring love and connections into our lives, but it will take older women speaking truthfully and from the heart to convince a new generation. I have told a few successful, bright young married women not to wait, but not to hesitate to hire a good nanny part-time either if they are going nuts. Not something I ever thought I would say, but children mainly need stability, and society needs bright women to have kids.

Blogger Aeoli January 04, 2018 10:29 AM  

Redpill Angel wrote:But if reasonably bright women are to be convinced to marry and have families, best not sugar-coat it. High IQ women embraced feminism because they saw clearly that childbirth and childrearing is sacrificial in nature. There is no getting around it. It hurts, women used to die, it causes stretch marks, and you don't have time to read.

^^^this x 1000

Blogger dc.sunsets January 04, 2018 10:35 AM  

Ours is an anti-life narrative (Roe v Wade is emblematic.)

Little kids learn by parents' nurture, but past about 2nd grade they increasingly learn by observing. How many kids today see their parents truly ENJOYING the wonders of marriage and raising kids? Too many people succumb to the Siren Song of Consumerism: "Better, faster and prettier is JUST AROUND THE CORNER. Be ready to trade up!"

Anything-goes sex and 24/7 consumerism are rocket fuel to vice and pervasive unhappiness, because casual sex/hedonism creates unfulfilling comparisons to reality and consumerism induces dissatisfaction with the status quo.

These things are KILLING us.

Blogger David Power January 04, 2018 11:02 AM  

We can't say we weren't warned.

She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great.

As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate.

Anonymous Blastmaster January 04, 2018 12:12 PM  

So true. Long term married with children here and a vasectomy. Regular non procreative sex within marriage binds us together as a couple. My eye also strays less when the libido is knocked down on a regular basis. Her itches get scratched as well. Win win

Blogger SirHamster January 04, 2018 1:19 PM  

Svensons wrote:The Bible does not teach that life is a gift, in fact, quite the opposite if you read Matthew 26:24. For most people it would indeed have been better if they would have never been born.

You are mistaken.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The problem is not that God gave life; men misused their gift of life and earned eternal shame.

You may be tripping on the paradox that the Christian dies to live. We die to self not for the sake of death, but for victory over death that leads to abundant life.

"Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it."

One such method is to sacrifice personal interests to create and nurture a godly family.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants January 04, 2018 1:24 PM  

I don't have a single stretch mark, (& I'm 50), I've had all the time to read one could ask for, and the two kidney stones I've had made pregnancy & delivery seem like a skip in the park.

I wish I would've had more kids, now that mine are grown/moved far away, & I don't get to see them or my grandchildren often.
Time goes very quickly when your children are young, & stretches on very slowly when they're gone.

Blogger Redpill Angel January 04, 2018 2:36 PM  

106: I wish I had more kids too, and fewer stretch marks! But if I could erase them tomorrow I wouldn't. It would be like erasing my kids.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. January 04, 2018 3:45 PM  

High IQ women embraced feminism because they saw clearly that childbirth and childrearing is sacrificial in nature. There is no getting around it. It hurts, women used to die, it causes stretch marks, and you don't have time to read.

Horseshit.

It has never been easier, in all of human history, for women to be and concentrate on being mothers. Indeed, the easier men have made it, the less women want to do it.

Women -- high IQ and otherwise -- embraced feminism because it taps into and twists the dials of a uniquely feminine narcissism that presupposes an utterly vacuous notion of "sacrifice".

Blogger Aeoli January 04, 2018 4:05 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Aeoli January 04, 2018 4:07 PM  

I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. wrote:High IQ women embraced feminism because they saw clearly that childbirth and childrearing is sacrificial in nature. There is no getting around it. It hurts, women used to die, it causes stretch marks, and you don't have time to read.

Horseshit.


False.

It has never been easier, in all of human history, for women to be and concentrate on being mothers. Indeed, the easier men have made it, the less women want to do it.

True.

Women -- high IQ and otherwise -- embraced feminism because it taps into and twists the dials of a uniquely feminine narcissism that presupposes an utterly vacuous notion of "sacrifice".

Laughably false. Feminism was sold on equality and a victim identity.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 04, 2018 4:32 PM  

Laughably false. Feminism was sold on equality and a victim identity.
Motivation and sales pitches are not the same thing. Do you think Bud Light actually tastes better than bear urine? It's sold on the basis of taste.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. January 04, 2018 5:01 PM  

False.

True.

You just disagreed that the statement I quoted was horseshit then agreed with the argument supporting that it's horseshit.

Laughably false. Feminism was sold on equality and a victim identity.

I didn't address how it was sold but why it stuck.

You're drunk, Areola. Stop typing.

Blogger kmbr January 04, 2018 5:02 PM  

@106 & 107

My one regret, certainly, not having, at least one more. (have 2)

Blogger Redpill Angel January 04, 2018 5:23 PM  

108: It has never been easier, in all of human history, for women to be and concentrate on being mothers. Indeed, the easier men have made it, the less women want to do it.
Quite true, and sums up the modern female paradox. I find the eagerness of young women to be sexually ruined office drones very puzzling.

110: Aeoli said: Feminism was sold on . . . A victim mentality.
Didn't Freud say all women were masochists? OT slightly, but after hearing many a sorrowful abortion tale, I wonder if it's been embraced by feminists because it is seen subconsciously as punishment for sin, and appeals to women's darkest secret sacrificial wishes in a perverse way. Just a theory.

Blogger Redpill Angel January 04, 2018 5:44 PM  

108: yes, motherhood has become easier, but it's still not without pain and sacrifice. You're not suggesting that, are you? So your second statement doesn't support your first.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 04, 2018 6:00 PM  

I'm not in the mood to explain how advertising works. The important thing is you'll never convince people to have marry and have kids on the grounds that "it's so easy and affordable and requires little to no sacrifice etc." No one believes that. An adult's moral framework includes notions of sacrifice, mere self-gratification is religion for children.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 04, 2018 6:07 PM  

You (Not a Fascist) will have a much easier time selling it on fulfillment and duty to one's race, if the idea of sacrifice is repellant to your moral system. I presume you lean toward a more fascist worldview than Christian (probably you distrust Christianity as a Jewish mind virus but are wise enough to hide it here).

Men will respond to an appeal to virtus, but you'll have a harder time with women. Honestly your options are to rape the Sabine women or convince the women that all the other women are already having babies with your strong tribe (a tricky bit of persuasion but possible). If you want I can design some rhetoric for you.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 05, 2018 12:51 AM  

Do you think Bud Light actually tastes better than bear urine?

Well now, kinda depends on the bear's diet. For instance, if the bear has been drinking a lot of Rainier Beer, then, yes, I would expect the Bud Light probably does taste better.

Anonymous Luke January 05, 2018 4:21 AM  

Githyankee, there is still hope for you.
I am 56, with two 5-YOs that are the light of my life. I went the egg donor/gestational surrogate route, after marrying a woman near my age (I'm not rich/famous/handsome enough to get the early-20s-YO woman I wanted to do this naturally) who knew I wanted to do this, and signed on for it. The wife part was the only mistake; I should have done it as a single father, hiring what help I needed. It cost me close to 100 grand to get my kids, putting me perpetually into the lower-MC, and was worth it. I expect to work until I croak now, to support them to adulthood, and gave up dreams I had of hiking several 1000+ mile trails, and consider that worth it.

Anonymous Luke January 05, 2018 4:29 AM  

99. B.J. January 04, 2018 9:59 AM
>I think that letting girls know about the huge drop in fertility rates would help stem the problem.

"I explained this to a female friend but she went and asked her OBGYN (a woman) who told her she could have kids into her 40's no problem. I'm not a doctor so I was outranked. I consider that egregious malpractice but oh well, I tried. The evil runs deep I'm afraid."

Give her a copy of Sylvia Ann Hewlett's book on barren-till-too-old careerist women "Creating A Life". Including postage, you can pick up a copy off Amazon.com's used book section for about 4 bucks, last I checked.

Anonymous Luke January 05, 2018 4:36 AM  

Where feminism came from? IMO, boiled down, it was ultimately just another something-for-nothing scam, that women were uniquely vulnerable to its pitch. Why was that? Rich Zubaty, author of "What Men Know That Women Don't", noted that while pre-agriculture women only had an estimated 10 menstrual cycles during their lives, the typical Western woman now has 400. That means that they're having (and men are having to put up with) 40x as much PMS as we're supposed to have. And, somehow, it's all men's fault.

Anonymous MaMu77 January 05, 2018 9:53 PM  

"We've basically farmed out childbirth to the stupid."

This is it, in a nutshell. In this modern society, breeding willy-nilly is almost always a recipe for disaster. Any rational human being with a modicum of common sense "knows better" than to just "stick it in and pray for the best". And what happens? People with foresight end up with 0-3 children and shortsighted people breed until the fluids dry up (or prison or worse.)

Idiocracy writ small happened to America's canary. 80+% marriage rate when the Baby Boom started, <50% as soon a housing projects began to accept single mothers.


Arthur, Clivell and Lincoln were outnumbered quickly by Lemonjello, Shitavious and various 'Quans, 'Shawna, 'Ikas, 'Imas and 'Ashas (because Kid #4 is expensive in a city, unless Uncle Sugar and Nice White Lady Gloria at the welfare office are padding your wallet.)

Then the encouragement of single motherhood hit the streets (yes, most of America's largest cities were giving apartments to any 15 year old with a functional uterus. How else could so many crime articles and stories about 14 year old felons with 28 year old mothers have filled newspapers and newscasts in the 1980's? And no, those stories didn't disappear because of "Muh sacred negroes", they disappeared to disguise the long-term damage of single motherhood.)
Then the inevitable consequence of "Daddy Doesn't Matter" single motherhood-grandchildren with an odd number of grandparents. Her momma, his momma, their daddy,IOW, because papa was over 6 feet tall and had "Good hair". Pro tip for trolls, black Vox Day lurkers, IDGAF posters and overall pricks: start conversation with black coworkers about Desmond Hatchett, mention that the last 20 (yes, 20!), of his children were discovered due to Tennessee's welfare laws, then wonder aloud if he made any children with women who didn't need government money to survive. I make comments like that at work because I'm a triple minority (disabled black veteran) who's too much trouble to fire and too difficult to replace, but lulz like this are too good to keep to myself.

Back on track-then, cultivate the (by default) neglected children in an "Everything bad that has ever been done is someone else's fault!", environment, leaven with psycho-liberal judges who forgive anything bar copious bloodshed, then sprinkle the "I do what I want and I get away with it, come test me!!", hardened criminals among the non-tainted population and watch the degeneracy bloom like spore mold on an overrule fruit (fun piece of data-some of the largest gangs in the USA began as retaliatory groups. As in-small gang causes trouble, uses revolving door justice to gain dominance, other group forms as vigilante justice, becomes as corrupt as their original target. Bloods begat Crips, Latin Kings, etc...)

White Americans won't be hit as hard as blacks (much larger population base, farther spread out, deeper pockets for now...), but when demographic changes are tallied and projected out, margins become frames become centers very quickly (insert standard Godwin Law comment about vocal Nazi party members being a minority of the Weimar-era population here.)

Blogger Artisanal Toad January 07, 2018 12:48 PM  

Svensons wrote:It isn't. The goal of Christianity is to convert the nations, then live chaste lives and slowly ebb away; Augustine knew this (see Of the Good of Widowhoo, Of the Good of Marriage).

The Bible does not teach that life is a gift, in fact, quite the opposite if you read Matthew 26:24. For most people it would indeed have been better if they would have never been born.


Augustine was a loud-mouth gamma who dragged his Manichean garbage into the church and helped establish it as doctrine. He was a pervert who believed that sex was the height of evil wickedness and he never came to grips with the 1st Commandment: Be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth. Subdue it and take dominion over it.

In addition, Augustine was one of the principal authors of the doctrine of sexual equality that laid the moral foundation of feminism. Since you cite Augustine as your authority and believe that Christians are supposed to fade away, go kill yourself and get it over with.

The 1st commandment to man has not been rescinded or modified in any way. That's all any Christian really needs to know, but observably there is also the fact that the vast majority of evangelism takes place within the home as the children are reached at a tender age and come to Christ. Want to win souls for Christ? Marry, have children and raise them up to become Christians.

Interestingly, the greatest single influence on the child's decision to become a Christian is the presence of a faithful father within the home. Remove the father and the likelihood of the child becoming a Christian drops off the cliff no matter how much of a faithful Christian the mother is. This was proven in a Swiss study some years ago. The metric for determining whether the children became Christians was church attendance by the children in adulthood.

Church growth parallels the population growth of Christians, so for church growth to take place, put buns in the ovens and raise those children to be Christians.

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